nenehcherry2

Believing that Ailsa was late 30s in 1988 is a huge stretch of one's belief. She looks 48ish (Judy's old face for her age). Whereas, I've always seen VanPip as early-mid 30s in 88 in looks and youthful mannerisms (I age her more on the basis of how "old" she'll become once DL takes over). Definitely didn't seem late 40s (bit of an insult to Vanessa Downing I think!). Ailsa always seemed (looks and behaviour) significantly older than Pip to me but the gap seemed somewhat smaller with Deb than it did with Van. By 98, Pip feels about mid-late 40s whilst Ailsa seemed late 50s, pushing 60.

You've got it!

I can't think of anything more hideous as a prospect which never was... The fun of Morag/Bobby was seeing them hate on each other; Corny & Nicky were so good at playing that up too. I'd love to have seen them on-screen together again but definitely not as some loving Mother/Daughter... Where's the entertainment in that? Or... Maybe I just love bitchy "camporama" too much!

I agree RE Tug. With him, it was the age thing. He was hitting the end of year 12 and the teen gangs were about to be "recycled". As a character in a soap opera, definitely heaps of mileage left. But just not within the format of a show which was still definitively under 18s-centric and didn't have the best record of transitioning teens into adults realistically. Plus, they already had Shane and Angel staying on to turn into the next old married couple. And he was still too young to be the new teacher or doctor (unrealistic to boot for Tug!), so he'd have been repeating year 12 like a loner (alas 93 Fin) or just hanging around Alf in the store. But could definitely have turned into the next Bobby as a character. But, like yourself, I really liked him. And there was something about Tristan's acting (good presenter too). A shame he left the profession but clearly seems happy writing kids' books, good for him!

The most she'd have been able to purchase pre-00 was a quarter share. Nobody could buy the half of Bobby's share of the diner that Sam inherited until 2000 since it would have been held in trust until he turned 18. That's the way intestate law works in all common law systems, including Australia, when minors inherit from a deceased parent. But his share wasn't forgotten, hence the storyline involving Sam & the Stewarts in 00 (by which time Irene was working at the school). Regarding Greg's share (the other half of Bobby's half): unsure what happened to this. There was talk of him selling it in early 94 to (guess who?) Irene (and, to your point, Ailsa was incredibly opposed) but he changed his mind and sold the beach house to her instead. Does anyone remember if Greg's diner share was ever mentioned again? Or do we assume that Ailsa bought him out off-screen?

Haha, so true! Every 94 departure comes across like "oh it's Tina, John, Tristan's last day, let's quickly write in a little leaving do at the surf club in the midst of all the high drama plots about sausages, deb balls & netball. 1994 being such a demanding season from a storyliner's perspective and all that... I've always thought that too RE Haydn. What was the point of bringing him in for her final storyline but not linking that to her departure? Especially given their real-life status at that point. Thankyou! I actually found one of the mentions earlier, it was Louise Scott who referred to her as that when she introduced her to Sam. I KNEW there was another use of it earlier than that. Actually think a nice little moment would have been for Bobby to change her name to Fisher after her divorce to Frank. Even better, after "Simpson's" return (apparently the divorce papers came through not long after then)... Can hear 1990era Bobby now saying this to Don "(Bobby sigh noise)... it's Bobby FISHER now. Okay... sounds daggy, no offence but... I figured why would I want to still have the same dumb name as an evil jerk like Simpson when I COULD have the same name as the not as evil as everyone used to reckon Principal. Who, I guess I sort of love now... Very much". Don (touched but usual flustering): well, I'm truly very.... Honoured. Bobby: I love you, Dad!" (Just grabs him and kisses his cheek).

Fin's was awful. So sad, pretty much fitting with her entire random, dead wood existence in the final half of her stint.

Nick's departure was pretty lame too, especially given Bruce's 3 years service. He even commented on it in a British press article. I believe the circumstances were that he'd given notice to July (he was moving to the UK to be with his girlfriend) but they just let him go earlier with little explanation as to why. On-screen, he stops appearing after the boatshed auction and Shane confirms that he's overseas a few eps later. But no build up beforehand. Saying that, all the 94 departure stories bar Adam's were dull. Characters deciding to leave an ep or two before final appearances. Albeit, they mostly had some kind of leaving scene.

Did anyone else notice that Bobby referred to herself as "Bobby Fisher" a couple of times in circa 90/1 but then seemingly went back to Simpson for a while before marrying Greg. Did I imagine this?

I completely agree RE Alex Papps / Frank. He's good looking but I just don't fancy him for some reason. Whereas I think that Adam Willits is BEAUTIFUL by about 1990 and even more so later in the 90s. Interesting! When & where did you live in the Middle East? I spent a year in Oman in 2019.

Firstly, please keep posting, @cymbaline, because I just totally LOVE all your contributions on here! Totally agree with all of this, as I always do with your responses! A bar would have also allowed us to see the early 20s characters being their age. Not playing big sibling / mini parent roles to the teens whilst equally being young, having a drink etc. I still intend to write a fanfic of Adam, Maz, Bobby & Nick heading to "the city" for a warehouse rave (the scene was HUGE in Sydney at that point). Speaking of the diner, the original idea from Ailsa was to have some kind of "drop-in centre for kids to hang out" (or something to that effect). In my opinion, the Diner was anything but that. It was simply a capitalist venture (complete with a very messy looking kitchen before the 92 revamp), designed to take all of their pocket money at the risk of diabetes. And, as you said, a café which catered for all ages. No youth "hang out". Also, very random choice from a character perspective. Neither Ailsa nor Bobby had had any stated catering experience or passion for cooking before this point. So decide to open a café together. As you would do.

Agree. Putting her in the diner sure did make her the heart BUT the trade off was that there were times where she (like Ailsa) had "diner dependency syndrome". Nicolle was contracted to four episodes per week throughout her 5.5 year run; in those episodes where the characters closest to her didn't appear (e.g. Sam, only in 2 eps per week, Greg = 2-3ish, Don = 3), much of Bobby's contribution was to just to serve milkshakes etc. It almost became formulaic (i.e. "the diner's needed in this episode block quite a bit, let's stick Bobby in there because Ailsa needs to be in Stewart House scenes for a big Blake etc story"). Especially during periods where there was no big Bobby storyline. As much as I appreciate the show was firmly teen-centric by 90', I still think they missed a trick by not having a bar for the middle aged & twenties characters to hang in (alas the Waterhole). Perhaps have it linked to the Macklin resort with Bobby running it (with or without Ailsa). Bobby had all the makings of a ruthless business woman (she was a Stewart after all!) but a stable, dependable little business like the diner hardly allowed her to show that side.

Not being pedantic but just HAD to point out your putting "Bobby" as opposed to Sally on your point about credited child characters. Only because the pure concept made me smile...

Agreed. Plus the fact that Ailsa railroading her into a boring business seemed to suck all of the career ambition & drive out of her. Also agreed. Sam was blatantly bought in to be the new "little kid who'll grow up on this show" once Sally hit her teens (i.e. I suspect that they wanted to repeat that cyclic theme once again). As someone else stated, Ryan's overall acting range wasn't quite in the Kate Ritchie league (although I still LOVE his performances when Bobby and then Michael died).

The last positive mention of Greg was in early 95 when Sam came back from spending a couple of weeks with him "up the coast" and they seemingly had a good time together. This was totally forgotten in Greg's 2000 return wherein it was implied that Greg hadn't even seen Sam since he left the Bay. Whatever everyone's thoughts of Greg's character otherwise, he was always written as a very hands-on Dad. Look at the efforts he took in 91 to find Sam and then the fight he put up against Bobby for custody (before they fell in "love", as we all would do in that situation...). And then the fight again for access when they broke up after his rendezvous with Fiona. Him abandoning Sam completely in 93 (and more officially a few months later) seemed incredibly out of character. And even more so unbelievable that the more established likes of Don, Alf, Ailsa, Pippa etc wouldn't have questioned Greg's decision to do this. The "I don't fancy working in a diner" response didn't really ring true, neither did there not being other jobs in the area more suited to him. Him choosing to be a long-distance truck driver again was a purely selfish motive. I get that it was in the thick of the recession, jobs were more scarce, that he was grieving for Bobby etc but it was just terrible writing for the sake of contriving Sam to continue as the "next Sally" whilst booting out Greg (which I understand as he'd run his course and Ross is clearly a very "transient" actor anyway, so would have probably gone of his own accord come say 95 latest). But the exit storyline could have been so much better. In fact, why not just have Greg killed off along with Bobby? Or somehow have had him cause her death and sent to jail? That would have been more believable, more dramatic and have left an even deeper scar on Sam, making him moving in with the Rosses more justified, as with his later 90s behaviour. Also, a great story would have been to see Jackie return (rather than Morag, that was an awful storyline overall, sorry if anyone liked it) to fight for custody. A recast would have been necessary (the actress was awful imo) but that would have been far more believable than Morag's contrived interest in "Sem" (as Ailsa liked to call him). Very good point, I also picked up on this. Shannon said something like "Christopher's her natural child" before they all looked at Sam as the vulnerable one. But, to your point, surely Pippa would have been equally incapable of looking after him had the brain damage been permanent (and he would have needed an adult even more & for longer given his younger age). Then again, Bert's miraculous cognitive recovery had just occurred by then so he'd have been more than able to look after Chris with Isobel by his side for a few years.

At one time, Ailsa would have helped out here and there. But the character had become so grumpy towards and detached from teenagers by that time that it wouldn't have felt right. Besides, she was always complaining by then about how busy she was with "the diner, Alf, Duncan, Curtis" (Yadda Yadda). And it felt so out of character that Don didn't step in where there was a risk of Sam being fostered elsewhere. Especially as he was by that time married to Maz & talking babies. The writers pretty much forgot about Sam and Don's connection for a few years, didn't they?

I think you're right there. I know some of the soap mags at the time (the bastions of scriptural "canon" that they were. NOT!) were writing about "Pippa's senile Dad comes to stay after a dementia diagnosis!" but I re-watched some 95 recently and don't actually recall a direct mention of it. But I could have easily missed it.

I think she had the most chemistry with Alan and with Danny. The worst Bobby romance for me was with Geoff. So painful to watch her forcing herself to like a man who wasn't her type in any shape or form whilst he was, genuinely, a nice guy. Greg and Frank were both just very meh for me.

Totally agree. Bobby was on fire in 88 and (in a pretty different way) later 89-early 92. Being the (quite rightly since they both treated her like a doormat) nagging, strong-minded wife to two very chauvinistic, self-centred men became tired very quickly in each instance.

I didn't rate Frank much as a character. He's very much a plot device for Roo's plotting (pun intended) and then straight into the equally strong-minded Bobby. Just the romantic male foil to the two strong female leads of the show at that point. In addition there was also something about Alex's acting for me which didn't gel with the writing. It's like he has this condescending tone in his line delivery towards his co-stars which doesn't match how he's supposed to be perceived by the audience (presumably as boy next door, prince charming, Mr Nice Guy yadda Yadda). Something just doesn't work for me. It was like the writers noticed Papps' moodiness and aloofness so finally bought those traits into the writing in his 92 return. I totally agree RE his chemistry with Bobby vs. Roo. I loved Bobby on her own the best. She didn't need a man by her side and none of her screen husbands or boyfriends bought out her best (just my own opinion).

Totally agree with you as always, Adam! I actually don't mind seeing Martin and Lance in individual scenes with other characters at all. Those moments showed their long-term promise. But their (90% of the time) interdependency, as well as the silly, recycled storylines they co-played, was what bugged me. And drove the fast forwarding! I don't think fish funerals, pop groups & hot dog stands did them any favours with the audience (it was all tired by the end of the first season alone). Speaking of 89/90 Maz, the character is so daft, random and one dimensional until those two buggered off (except for maybe the stuff with Morag). She almost comes across as something like Bubble off Absolutely Fabulous but not as funny. Just very random indeed. Of course, she truly came into her own as soon as they left and quickly became a classic stalwart of the show.

Bert King. World's first and only ever known case of curable dementia.

Howie was Series Producer from ep 261 to end of 92 but then promoted to Exec Producer from the start of 93 to later 94. According to the credits at least. So his overall role in the show goes further back than 1993. Interviews from the time would suggest that Monaghan was pretty hands-off as far as Exec Producers go, meaning that Andrew Howie's influence likely defined that entire 89-94 period. Also, there was no Series Producer in that time when Howie was Exec (presumably due to the recession?). So he was likely "double hatting" & still very hands on, compared with Des' approach of delegation of authority. Greg Stevens was Script Producer for the entire late 89 - early 95 period (with various sidekicks over that period including John Hugginson & Boaz Stark), so another common denominator. Compare his storylining approach with the Bevan Lee era of 0 - 280.

You and I are 1 million per cent aligned here my friend! Just like yourself, I tend to categorise eras by storytelling / plot writing method more than actor presences. And, to your point, that was driven primarily by the series producer. Also, Greg Stevens was script producer between late 89 - just before Shane & Angel's wedding. I feel like his writing style was very, ahem, simple. Very straightforward, no twists, sudden shocks or turns. And none of the "mysticism" that we saw hints of in 88 and the show became synonymous with again post-Bobby fridge. Compared to 89/9 stories like Bobbygate (the Don reveal), the Nutter, Dodge, Floss' prediction etc and equally compared to the mid-late 90s with the likes of Sally (then Stephanie) being reincarnated, the cult, Ailsa holding Alf hostage etc. None of these stories would have happened in that Greg Stevens period. I mean, back to my example... There's very little cast difference between the very beginning and the very end of '95. Yet it's like comparing night and day. Country and western contest rivalries and paper round thefts to HIV scares & cults.

Fully agree. Can't stand long-winded coma stories like Emily Shadwick's.